| Thread Review for ear training (newest post first) |
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jacksonharry |
Posted on 6:36 am on April 30, 2012 |
| Nice sharing.... |
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jamesthomas |
Posted on 1:37 am on Mar. 26, 2012 |
| I have never before came across this, what kind of theory is it and why is it used?
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Wicked Edge |
Posted on 7:05 am on Mar. 14, 2009 |
Quote: from david guest on 8:39 am on Oct. 15, 2005
There's a small minority who think it's great, but most folks see it as a total rip off. [/quote]
Then "most folks" are lazy people who haven't completed the course or are naysayers without even trying.
I was curious enough to download & preview most of the Burge course via peer-to-peer & I'm having great trouble believing the guy's claims.
And this is what I mean. You listened to the intro lesson and based everything on that. First, no course can be judged on an intro lesson alone and second, how can anyone have a hard time beleiving when nothign of note has been discussed yet?!?
Try completing the whole course befofre you make your crass comments. DL the intro lesson and giving it aonce over doesn't count.
I'd like to see him tested with a pure sine wave generator or a set of tuning forks before I believe that he can hear different colours in diffrent pitches.
He never once states that you hear "different colours in different pitches". That is just YOU not getting past the ads and intro lesson.
He only uses colours in his ads - and the intro lesson - to try and give those without perfect pitch a loose idea of what it is like to have perfect pitch and hear how each note is different, irrespective of octave. He makes this very clear in the first lesson - and also makes it clear that you DO NOT hear in colours - so you obviously DIDN'T listen to it.
Hence an E always sounds like an E and a C always sounds like an C - like a flavour, like a colour. And that if a note is detuned then it becomes another note. Get that? Each note has it's unique quality - whoch is what people with perfect picth can recognise. Call it colour, flavour or what you want, each note is different and the only way to express this to those who can't "hear" is by using every day comparisons they CAN understand.
The colour example makes it easy for non perfect pitchers to understand how differnt music ebcomes WITH perfect picth, how each is unique and recognisable and how that if your a note is raised/lowered then it morphs into the next note - just like blue becomes blue-green and then green.
What he's actually doing I think is just recalling how notes sound on a particular instrument.
He can actually recognise the individual tones of each note. Hence he can recognise an A# in any octave and any instrument. Again, as with the "colours" that you got so very, very wrong, he makes this VERY CLEAR in the intro lesson.
He always demos with a piano
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Because he reccommends that beginners start with an instrument where the note cannot be manipulated by accident or design. Guitar strings can be bent & vibratoed very easily - throwing new starters off. He also recommends a clean tone - not distorted or covered with effects. A piano is his choice but any woodwind isntrument would suffice just as well.
yes you can kind of get the feel of what a low E sounds like on the guitar, especially if you listen to lots of Metallica!, but does it really sound diffreent if the guitar is tuned down 1/2 step.
Yes. If you bothered to listen to even just the intro lesson, you would know that this is the case.
[quote]Does the opening riff of " Load" really have a different pitch colour to the main riff of "Enter Sandman" ? ( the latter is not tuned down ).
Yes.
You should bear in mind the fact that over 150 years ago, a highly regarded classical composer had developed his own perfect pitch course and even wrote a book on the matter.
(Edited by Wicked Edge at 8:28 am on Mar. 16, 2009)
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margib |
Posted on 1:32 pm on Mar. 11, 2006 |
About relative and absolute pitch and how it (not) works with me:
On the long term, I can’t remember and label a pure single note without a musical context. When I think of a song or melody and that piece of music was popped up spontaneously, most of the time I hear it on the same pitch as the source. But on the other hand, if someone had asked me for that same song or I want me to remember that song, the pitch is most of the time different from the source. It seems it has something to do with the difference between “remembering” and “generating” the music in my inner ear.
I agree that relative pitch, not absolute pitch, has practical value for musicians, you can't manage without it. We all know we don't need absolute pitch at all to be a good musician. So why putting so much effort in learning absolute pitch as you don’t have it in your genes.
The frequency of a particular note (and the perception of it) may vary significant and is far from absolute and constant but the difference between notes is very good sensible for the human ear and more accurate then absolute frequencies. So, that brings me to "Margib's second law" that states:
RELATIVE PITCH = ABSOLUTE 
Margib (back in town)
(Edited by margib at 3:38 am on Mar. 12, 2006)
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usanylon |
Posted on 2:07 am on Dec. 18, 2005 |
To check if you might have the potential for perfect pitch.
Pick some songs you havent listened to for a long time, you shouldnt know them on guitar either. I choose "In the jungle" the Lionking theme song. ;P Try to find the correct key by playing the song in your head and then playing that on your guitar.. Now download the song and check...
If you do this with a bunch of songs and are correct more that 50% of the time you should be on to something since the chanse of you guessing the correct pitch several times in a row is very small.
Hmm, even better, let someone else find 12 songs in 12 different keys. LOL only problem is that you have to have heard them before.
Maybe you could do it like this, take 12 songs you havent heard before. Listen to them constantly for a week, then have a brake from them for a month. THEN take them out on guitar from memory and compare? =)
If you cant remember single notes, maybe there are songs that have made such an impression on you that you DO remember the exact key they are in. Shouldnt you then be able to use them as your memory-rules to remember/hearing other songs/keys (?)
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joe26 |
Posted on 2:46 pm on Dec. 8, 2005 |
You may want to check the links below for some information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_pitch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_pitch
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david guest |
Posted on 1:24 am on Dec. 8, 2005 |
university studies have so far failed to find a method of teaching perfect pitch to adults.
Burge, though he can do it himself, has never trotted out a "graduate" of his program who can perform like he can - & he's been teaching his mehod for at least 15 years!
It seems that a few people are born with perfect pitch & a few can learn it as young children & that's all.
But relative pitch can be learnt & that's the useful skill for playing music.
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MetalMilitia81 |
Posted on 6:28 pm on Dec. 7, 2005 |
| perfect pitch is attainable one of guys said its impossible,david guest i bielieve, just look at steve vai,
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SantoG3 |
Posted on 11:56 am on Dec. 7, 2005 |
| I´m not saying that Gary Willis´ book is bad or that he doesn´t make you sing the intervals, but what I think is more important is to have a sheet music in front of you and be able to sing it. Interval recognition alone it´s like learning an scale without knowing how to use it.
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Keeb |
Posted on 6:42 pm on Dec. 6, 2005 |
I have relative pitch. I trained for it quite a bit, but it was never hard for me.
I think guitarists in particular are pretty ignorant of what they are playing and what scales they are using etc. Most guitarists just learn patterns and don't actually know what the patterns mean and what each scale tone of a scale stands for.
However, even guitarists should be able to get relative pitch quite easily (I've taught a few people!!). Most guitarists know what an octave sounds like, what a perfect fifth sounds like and some can distinguish between major 3rds and minor 3rds. So, they have a bit of relative "pitchness".
Like most things to do with music there's no trick to it - I always made myself aware of what I was playing and when I learnt intervals it was more a case of; "so THAT'S what an dim5th sounds like" instead of "so this is a dim5th?".
I have to say most guitarists when learning relative pitch they say the latter as they just want relative pitch for the heck of it - it's best if it comes naturally. This happens by learning music by ear and working things out - then it's just a case of labelling sounds you know already with names from a book.
(Edited by Keeb at 6:44 pm on Dec. 6, 2005)
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usanylon |
Posted on 9:27 am on Dec. 6, 2005 |
Doing anything on a PC that has an Internet connection takes willpower ;P
I allways play my guitar through my soundcard >> Cubase >> Earphones. That way I allways have a backingtrack that I like, and a metronome.
I feel really pathetic everytime I get the urge to stop and check this Forum for example =D
What you say is true, about the partner (/tutor), someone acknowledging your progress is invaluable and goes straight into the back of your head.
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david guest |
Posted on 7:02 am on Dec. 6, 2005 |
ear training is like sex - it's more satisfying to do it with a partner:-)
there are excellent books & PC packages but they can be so boring - takes real willpower to keep working at them.
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usanylon |
Posted on 5:47 am on Dec. 6, 2005 |
There is a lovely "little" program for PC/Mac called band in a box.
Idont know If the demo includes the ear training parts howerver. I suggest you try it out. =)
http://www.bandinabox.com/
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david guest |
Posted on 1:46 am on Dec. 6, 2005 |
| Gary Willis also tells you to sing your intervals & triads, not just think/imagine them.
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SantoG3 |
Posted on 10:36 pm on Dec. 5, 2005 |
| I agree about relative pitch, It´s much more important than "perfect" pitch. I´m not so sure about Gary willis´ book because what you really need is to sight read music notation singing it if you want to "think" the notes without hearing them first, and that book just make you recognize intervals. So instead I recommend a solfege book. Believe me, the first month of solfege classes I coudn´t recognize DO from FA, now, I can hear a simple melody line and tell what every note was, and I don´t have a "perfect pitch".
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david guest |
Posted on 8:48 am on Oct. 15, 2005 |
nice post - I didn't know the synesthaesis stuff but makes sense. & the figures of 1 in 100 having the ability seems about right.
I knew that some classical composers "saw" music as colours, there's some nice info on a web site called Lucy tuning, but as they mostly saw different colours for the same notes I figured they must all have beeno n diffrent drugs at the time. :-)
http://www.harmonics.com/lucy/lsd/colors.html
A couple more observations:
1. Burge has been promoting this perfect pitch course for at least 15 years, as I see the ads in my old Guitar World magazines, which go back to 1990. So where's the roll-call of great guitarists who've done the course & are recommending it. There ought to be some by now, if it works
2. The ?great virtuoso? Ney Mello, over on guitarprinciples.com , who knows everything there is to know about everything:-) says that you can't learn perfect pitch and that it would not be worth learning even if it were possible. So if the "enlightened one" himself can't do it, what hope is there for us mere humans ?
PS just search with limewire for "perfect pitch".
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Keeb |
Posted on 8:27 am on Oct. 15, 2005 |
Jeez louise!! That's alot of money!
I haven't used it but maybe I can shed a bit of light on perfect pitch. It's only been diagnosed recently that perfect pitch is caused by a condition called "Synesthesia" this is where your bodies senses get mixed up and weird things start to happen. For example some people smell eggs cooking but for some reason they smell bananas and mustard, or in the case of perfect pitch people hear a note and see a colour. Basically what I'm getting at is that this condition CAN'T be taught. Only 1/100 people have it. Sorry mate!
One thing I will point out though is that perfect pitch (I know a few people who have it) doesn't really play a vital role in becoming a good all round musician - I bet you can't find one person with perfect pitch who can tell you one legitimate advantage of having it!!
The thing you want to work on is RELATIVE PITCH. That's where you know the next note in relation to the last and you can work out chords just by listening to them. Also, if you have relative pitch then you can work out music on an open staff that's where you can work out music just by listening to it and then when your near a guitar you just need to put in the key signature.
In short I wouldn't reccomend this book! Sorry!
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david guest |
Posted on 7:39 am on Oct. 15, 2005 |
I've seen a lot of discussion of this on other boards. There's a small minority who think it's great, but most folks see it as a total rip off.
Note that to play music, all you really need is relative pitch, not perfect pitch . I expect someone will explain the difference if you ask nicely 
I was curious enough to download & preview most of the Burge course via peer-to-peer & I'm having great trouble believing the guy's claims. I'd like to see him tested with a pure sine wave generator or a set of tuning forks before I believe that he can hear different colours in diffrent pitches. What he's actually doing I think is just recalling how notes sound on a particular instrument. ( He always demos with a piano. ). It just feels to me like that kids story called "the emperor's new clothes".
It's like - yes you can kind of get the feel of what a low E sounds like on the guitar, especially if you listen to lots of Metallica!, but does it really sound diffreent if the guitar is tuned down 1/2 step. Does the opening riff of " Load" really have a different pitch colour to the main riff of "Enter Sandman" ? ( the latter is not tuned down ).
I think not.
NB for Burge to be right in what he claims, all the universities & scientists who've tested the learning of perfect pitch would have to be wrong!. ( the single study that Burge likes to quote from in support of his sales pitch is very lukewarm, if you trouble to look it up. It's based on a very small sample & all that it concludes is that Some of the people who studied with Burge improved their sense of pitch by a little bit ( and some didn't)
I'd recommend you buy Gary Willis' excellent Ultimate Ear Training book + CD instead, & save yourself about $380
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gibson |
Posted on 8:41 am on Oct. 14, 2005 |
| has anyone heard of this system used this system called perfect pitch it is a ear training system it comes in a 41 cd set to train your ear it cost about $400.00 dallors before I give up that much scratch I would like to talk to some one who has used it thanks for your time
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